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 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)

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joeron



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帖子主题: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周三 二月 13, 2008 3:50 am

德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)

德国人和日本人是两次大战法西斯的两个策源地。他们都自称上最优秀的民族。有的中国人或认为他们很象。其实德国人对于日本人来说,可以说是从另一个银河系的生物。德国人的天性和日本人的差别实在是太巨大了。

既然是优秀,那么优秀者必然也有共性。如果一定要追寻德国人和日本人的共性的话,我想那么只有,认真,仔细,爱清洁,爱秩序,爱整洁等。在这些方面可能日本人和德国人有一些相似的地方。但是从民族的天性上来讲,这两个民族其实可以说是来自不同的银河系。

中国人对于日本人的了解其实很多,从鲁迅的那个年代,到现在,中国的,日本的,西洋的,对日本人的民族性都写过很多分析性文章。日本民族对于中国人来说,其实应该不算是陌生的。那么处于欧洲的德国人,中国人从内心里是不太了解的,中国人可能对于德意志民族有着一些含糊的印象。我认为,我应当至少设法解释一下德意志民族到底是这么样的人类。那么和日本人对照起来,你们心里可能就有个依据。

我的家族和德国人渊源很深,家里大部分人都住在德国。而且我也很喜欢德国的文化。我本人不住在德国,但是我以为我个人和德国人其实是有着很多公性的,如果没有这种共鸣,我想,我是不能够解释德国人灵魂的。不错,我以为我和德国人是有共鸣的。

德国人是一个很特殊的民族,他们有很多特点,这种特点其他民族是很难模仿的。比如,对于秩序的迷恋,就是一。德国人先天有对纪律和秩序的喜好,对法制服从的爱好。怎么说呢,这样说其实很粗糙,从深层的角度来讲,这不是法制的本身,而是德国人的内心很霸道,他们习惯于把自己的意志贯彻于每件事情发展的过程中,他们甚至不允许任何事物来挑战这个过程。热爱制定不同的法纪,这里的关键不再于法制的本身,而是德意志民族为了维护自己贯彻自己意志不受挑战的手段。在这个方面德意志民族不会妥协,他们会以非常的手段,倔强刚硬不妥协的风度来确保自己的意志被绝对的贯彻在事情的每一个细节上。而再这个过程中,德国人的做法非常绝对,非常彻底,毫不妥协,毫不留情,毫不马虎。无情的限制,无情的约束就是为了使事情按照预期的发展,不受挑战。这就是从深层的方面来解释,为啥么,德意志民族会对秩序有着这样的迷恋,为啥么他们这个品质是世界上其他的民族难以模仿的。为啥么,因为这就是他们霸道的天性所造就的 ,他们并不允许自己的意志被挑战。

当然这个只是德意志民族的一个方面,德国人还有其他的特点,比如冷酷无情,很多到德国人的外国人都抱怨德国人很冷。有句话说的好吗,人无情,花不香。住在德国的外国人的喜欢抱怨德国的花草毫无香味。不错,对于象日本人这种有着脉脉温情的东方民族来说,德国人实在是太冷酷了。然而我以为,正是因为他们的冷酷,所以造就了德国人的特殊性,使的他们与众不同。正是因为他们的冷酷,所以德国人的特质对于外国人来说非常的难以模仿。

按照我对人类灵魂的理解,多情善感的民族,他们的长处必然在于形象思维,比如艺术,诗歌之类的。而冷峻少情的民族,他们的长处必然在于理性思维,他们擅长的是逻辑和推理。形象思维的关键,形象思维的体现在于掌握一个感觉,一个意境,一种温情,在把他以艺术的方式表达出来。但这种思维,由于在表达时要通过创造者的主观思想的翻译,因为一种温情只是一个在创造者脑海里的感受,把他展现在世人面前必须要把这个意境“翻译”成看的到,听的到的东西。这个“翻译”过程是由创造者的主观思想来控制的。既然是主观的,那么必然不可能完全符合真实。因为表达的时候经过了人为的主观处理,离开真实有了小小偏差。所以说,形象思维是主观的,是赋予感情的,艺术就是感情的体现,是非理性的,人的感情就是非理性的主观的。正因为感情丰富的人,主观意识强大的人,才能更好的把温情“翻译”成艺术。艺术往往是偏离实际的夸大,好比传口令,从第一个人传到最后一个人的时候,口令就会产生小小的偏差,把感情和意境“翻译”成艺术,其实对于真实是要有小小的偏差的。不然怎么叫“艺术加工”呢,主观形象思维的本身是不追求绝对精确的。

而理性思维却容不得任何的主观意识,逻辑是无情的,非人性的。不是英语叫“冷酷逻辑”COLD LOGIC 吗?主观意识强的“温情”式人物是不太适合理性思维的,因为逻辑和抽象是容不的主观意识的,也是容不的感情的,理性的本身就是绝对客观的,不然就不能称之为理性。理性不追求艺术的朦胧美,理性追求的就是绝对的精确,绝对的准确,毫不妥协。理性本身不需要人主观意识的“翻译”,所以离事物的精确度的最高,不会有偏差。理性强的人必然感情要比理性弱的人薄弱,民族也一样。德国民族是一个尚从理性的民族,你可能经常听到有人说一句话叫做“德国式精确”,德国式的精确是其他民族很难模仿的,因为他们的天性就很冷酷,很无情。思辩能力,理性推理能力强,这不得不归功于他们的特有的冷酷。我想如果硬要让他们温情脉脉起来,只能毁灭了他们的独特性,说不定德意志民族就不值得一题了。

我只能谈到这里了,真的要彻底解读德国人可能要写本书了。德国人是一个很特殊的民族,他们有很多其他民族无法模仿的特性。他们和日本人是一个截然想反的民族。日本人擅长形象思维,德国人擅长的理性思维,日本人多情,而德国人无情。他们两者实在很难相处,要说他们的共同点,那么我想只有,认真,负责,爱清洁,爱整洁,爱纪律。等,其他来讲,德国人和日本人实在是不同星球的生物。
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周三 二月 13, 2008 3:52 am

English version of above post

德国战日本,谁更强 ? (英语)


Both German and Japanese is the headstream of the second world war , both of them made self assertion that they are the finest race in the world , many people may share the believe that there must be some similarity between the two , as the way I see it , compare to Japanese , German people are some alien organic life form from some other galaxy . The disparity between their inherent nature is prodigious .

Since we are dealing with the word excellence here , we must come to a sense that the races who possess the quality of excellence must have something in common , that if we must unearth the commonality between Japanese people and German race . I think the words such as , seriousness , industry , cleanness , love of order and neatness , discipline and so on may fitting the category , in those area I believe the Japanese and German race has a lot in common , but as for inherent racial instinct , this two different people are veritably from two different galaxy .


Japanese as a people does not present as an enigma for her Asian neighbors , People like Korean and Chinese and so on , must had grasp fundamental knowledge for the Japanese people , but as for German race , a race of indigenous European , both Korean and Chinese may not knowing them so well . Chinese and Korean may had some ambiguous understanding for the Germans . Methinks it is vital to reveal the innate nature of Germans as what kind of human being they really are , in doing so it will help many of you to make comparence with the Japanese .

My family has many connection with Germans , most of them are live in Germany , I enjoy culture of German speaking people , especially of the era of Bismarck time , I personally are not live in Germany , but as their influence and my inherent nature , I believe that I have many things in common with the Germans , if without this commonality , this resonance , I believe to interpret the soul of Germans are merely a castle in Spain .
Yes , Me and German shares many things in common .

German people is a special race , for whom had endowed with many inimitable peculiarity . Such as their penchant to wallowing in being absolutely obedient to rules and regulations and love of order . This is one discernible factor for which is easy to notice , but if we look deeper to this special German penchant , the way I see it should I say I felt it , this German penchant has nothing to do law and order itself . This is more like the inner reflection of German’s soul , Germans are overbearing . They tend to exert their will over every minutia of process from an event , or work . They do not allow anything that present as a threat to their will , in order to prevent anything that could challenge or undermine the way how they doing things , thus they inclined to institute various laws and regulation to protect it . For this , has nothing to do with law itself , this is the method of securing the things going their way and eradicate anything could challenge it . From this , German tend to not to compromise , they will use very and intractable means to securing their will are instilled into the process of how things goes . In every minutia . In this process , Germans are very relentless , very absolute , very indomitable . The purpose of this relentless restriction is to make sure that everything follows order not goes awry . Yes , I think that the Germans is that kind of people of my way or the high way type . This explains them why they possess this strong penchant for orders and sheepish docility towards regulations and rules , and this is also the explanation why this German uniqueness is hard to imitate by the people who is not German . Germans are endowed with an overbearing soul , they will eliminate all possibility that challenge their will over things .

This is merely one facet of the Germans , Surely Germans also possess other uniqueness , such as coldness , emotionless and so on . Many foreigner live in Germany are complain about that the German are cold as ice . Yes , this is German uniqueness . People say that , the place where flower are scentless , people are emotionless . Yes , many foreigner lives in Germany all complain that the flowers in Germany are weird since the pretty appearance does not conceal its scentless nature . Yes , as for the sentimental Japanese , Germans are cold as ice and not emotional at all .

Maybe the Japanese will condemn this as flaw of the Germans , but methinks that this uniqueness had made German who they really are , it had made them unique when standing out in the concert where all other human beings confluence , and because of this cold and emotionless nature , this had render the German uniqueness are inimitable for alien people .

For my understanding over human’s soul , the race who is sentimental , their strong suit are mostly reside in art . The emotionless types are good with reasoning and logic . The nature of art is image-building , the method of grasp an idea , a sentiment , a emotion , a feeling , an image and so on and reflect them in a tangible way . Such as literature , novel , painting , sculpture , music and so on . This very feeling and image are to be translated from the creator’s mind’s eye into something that is tangible . The process of this “ translation” , is done by the creator’s subjectivity , as it is in the state of subjectivity , the “translation” can not be one hundred percent precise , it had a slight deviation from the reality , because how the creator perceive things can not be the thing itself from a subjective mind . As for the word of subjective it denotes the personal penchant over things , as personal as it is that also denotes the creator are unconsciously distorting the reality into their personal favor . Art is a process of emotion building or image building , it had endowed with personal feelings . Art is presentation of emotion , it is irrational . Human feeling is irrational as it is subjective . The famous artist are mostly the sentimental type , since their emotion , their love or hate are so intense . Thus this had render them the capacity for “ translate ” their emotion or feeling into tangible form with great ease . Art itself is the unconscious exaggeration over things that is slightly deviate from the reality . Like how people passing word from the first people onto the last people , the last people may say something utterly different from the first man. Same thing goes with art , from the inception where artist makes an perception , when he trying to translate his very idea , it will has a deviation effect since his work can not remain identical to his primary perception since the emotional subjectivity . Art of image / emotional building are not pursuing the absolute preciseness .

Rational thinking will not tolerate any subjectivity , logic is emotionless , relentless and away from the realm of humanity . This is the reason we call it ( cold logic ) in English . Those sentimental type who had endowed with tremendous emotion are not suitable for conducting rational thinking . Subjectivity are not compatible with abstract or logic deduction , rationality murders any human emotion , logic itself is absolute objective . Without this objectivity , than it can not be called logic in a real sense . Rationality does not compromise human emotion . It’s goal is pursuing absolute exactness , absolute preciseness . Rationality does not appreciate the ambiguous beauty of art , as emotionless as it is , rationality does not need to be translated from mind’s eye of subjectivity . It endows with the highest preciseness from reality and away from any deviation . The rational type of human-being are normally emotionally weaker than those people who are less rational , the same thing goes with race . German race is a race that emphasis on rationality . Probably that you’ve heard people saying a word such as “ German preciseness ” . “ German preciseness ” is almost inimitable for the race who is not German since the god perhaps favors this endowment upon only his emotionless creations . The inherent nature of the German are cold and emotionless , thus their reasoning power , logic deduction , abstract thinking is superbly developed . This has to ascribe to their unique coldness , I think that if you enforce the German to be as sentimental as other races in the world , it will only produce an lamentable result as Germanhood will be destroyed , as German uniqueness is being destroyed , methinks perhaps the great German since then is not worth of mentioning .

I think I had had fly far enough to unscrambling the soul of Germans , in order to depict a full picture of the German perhaps I really need to sit down and write a big book . German is a special race , they had endowed with many peculiarity that is inimitable to the people without Germanhood . German is the opposite of Japanese , Japanese good with image-building , German’s strong suit is rational deduction . Japanese are sentimental , German are emotionless . The two may not live well in the same world , If you insist to unearth the commonality between the two . I think the word of seriousness , cleanness , obedient toward regulation , neatness and so on may fitting the category , besides those quality , German and Japanese are different organic life form from different galaxy .
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周四 二月 14, 2008 5:27 am

跟别人讨论过
结论是日本强
德国被东德拖累了 西德可是世界强国强过日本
东西德合并就变弱了
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周四 二月 28, 2008 9:08 am

对楼主观点,有些同意,有些不同意。日本是一个很理性的民族,绝非楼主说的那样感性和多情。日本人不论在公开场合还是私下场合,都是十分理性的。你很少会看见日本人流露出像其他大陆民族那种大喜大悲的情绪,即使遭遇失去亲人的打击,面对死亡的威胁,日本人也不会表现出过激的情绪波动。

表面上看来日本人似乎秉承了东方文化,但无论是家庭教育还是学校教育,都不是延续传统的东方模式。我的一位日本朋友暑假里给自己家里修房子,他的父母也一样按照每小时的法定工资付给他工钱。他因为结婚向父母借钱,一样写下借用书并在法律机构备案并每月从自己的工资里面按时返还。日本是一个非常遵守约定和秩序的民族,日本的小孩子从上幼儿园第一天起,被教给最重要的一件事就是一定要遵守约定。照我这支那猪的想法看来,时常觉得他们很傻,太不灵活了。日本人去外地旅游,都会事先在书店买一本旅游手册,然后按部就班的按照手册上面的指示,在哪里买票,在哪里住宿,在哪里吃饭,在哪里购物,都完全按照书本上面所写的做。他们甚至连几点到几点在哪个地点都事先计算好,每一步都做好行程表和计划书,分秒不差的行动。

不了解日本的朋友,很容易用别的东方民族的思想来设想心目中的日本人,
但事实上日本人的思想并非是简单的用其他的东方民族可以比拟套用的,这也是他们能够在亚洲一支独秀的原因。
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周六 三月 01, 2008 5:26 am

谈日本人的思想,就不能不谈武士道精神。“无情”是对一个武士的基本要求。许多在日支那人,出于支那思维的影响,对日本人的负面评价里少不了冷漠二字。正确与否我们姑且不作评价,且从一个侧面反映日本人绝非如楼主所说的是什么多情的民族。

日本人有很强的自虐和自我否定的倾向和危机意识。我从来没有听到日本人说自己的民族是世界上最优秀的民族,相反他们总是说"日本这么小,资源这么少,地震这么多,已经没有发展的余地了,未来该怎么办啊”
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周四 五月 26, 2011 7:33 pm

楼猪发的恶心的帖子太多了
本贴就是其中之一
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周五 五月 27, 2011 7:24 am

yamatodamashii 写道::
楼猪发的恶心的帖子太多了
本贴就是其中之一

而且楼猪的英文水平也是差得可怜。
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周二 七月 05, 2011 10:28 pm

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[quote]日本人有很强的自虐和自我否定的倾向和危机意识。我从来没有听到日本人说自己的民族是世界上最优秀的民族,相反他们总是说"日本这么小,资源这么少,地震这么多,已经没有发展的余地了,未来该怎么办啊”

太同意了,德意志与大和都是世界上最优秀的民族,从很久以前开始我着迷。

如果说德国人的灵魂是我的奋斗,那日本人的灵魂就是武士道。
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周三 七月 06, 2011 7:41 am

吹捧独逸的大可去支那的论坛
那里有的是吹捧独逸的人

没必要来这里
================

楼狗你很无聊
我唾弃你
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周三 七月 06, 2011 7:45 am

我吐楼狗你一脸唾沫

这么无聊的帖子发到本论坛,你就是一SB粪狗吧?
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周三 七月 06, 2011 7:53 am

yamatodamashii 写道::
我吐楼狗你一脸唾沫

这么无聊的帖子发到本论坛,你就是一SB粪狗吧?

楼主是过去热汗上的dudalai
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周三 七月 06, 2011 9:27 am

引用 :


楼主是过去热汗上的dudalai
你点击楼猪的资料,搜索它发的恶心的帖子很多
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周三 七月 06, 2011 9:28 am

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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周五 九月 23, 2011 7:17 am

yamatodamashii 写道::
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楼主是过去热汗上的dudalai
你点击楼猪的资料,搜索它发的恶心的帖子很多

支那狗们都意淫说日本的将旗是支那狗唐象棋传入日本演变而成,应该是支狗们瞎放屁吧?!
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周五 九月 23, 2011 8:04 am

杉山光 写道::
支那狗们都意淫说日本的将旗是支那狗唐象棋传入日本演变而成,应该是支狗们瞎放屁吧?!
将棋的规则和国际象棋更接近些吧

而且支那象棋是宋朝才出现的,怎么会狗唐时传入日本呢?

我以前研究过支那象棋,就是宋朝才有的,棋谱甚至是明清时才有。
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yamatodamashii



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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周五 九月 23, 2011 8:09 am

越南豚要下支那象棋,越南就是宋朝才脱离支那殖民的。
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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周五 九月 23, 2011 8:24 am

yamatodamashii 写道::
杉山光 写道::
支那狗们都意淫说日本的将旗是支那狗唐象棋传入日本演变而成,应该是支狗们瞎放屁吧?!
将棋的规则和国际象棋更接近些吧

而且支那象棋是宋朝才出现的,怎么会狗唐时传入日本呢?

我以前研究过支那象棋,就是宋朝才有的,棋谱甚至是明清时才有。

妓那象棋不是印度发明的吗???
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yamatodamashii



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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周五 九月 23, 2011 8:29 am

杉山光 写道::
妓那象棋不是印度发明的吗???
国际象棋是印度发明的。

妓娜象棋是不是,我不清楚。

但是国际象棋和将棋都是把棋子放在空格里,妓娜象棋是把棋子放在交叉点上。
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yamatodamashii



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帖子主题: 回复: 德意志民族和日本民族的比较(讨论)   周五 九月 23, 2011 4:02 pm

宋朝时支那象棋的棋子上都还没有汉字,只有图案。

如果狗唐就有所谓“象棋”,估计就是几块破石头吧。
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